-: [rti4empowerment] Re: [Janshakti] Professional misconduct by a lawyer in Chandigarh

Dear Mr Sudhakaran

I for one do not agree with Anna Hazare if he has agreed that it is futile to fight corruption. If he had got atleast two corrupt ministers out by his efforts that much is a gain in the crusade against corruption. (The longest journey begins with the first step?) Now coming to your 'inner party democracy', please tell me how much is your success in that area? To the best of my knowledge NIL. This is not to comment poorly on your efforts. On the other hand I am fully convinced that it is also a very important issue that needs to be pursued. But to say that that is the only thing that need to be pursued will be being thick headed. It is much like the freedom struggle. Though it is being touted as victory of satyagraha, and satyagraha only, we know better. (Just as an aside, if satyagraha was a one stop solution for all injustices, then let us disband the complete state machinary and have only satyagrha pandals all over the country. The dismantling should start with SPG, NSG, Armed forces, police, court and other offices of govt administration. Though stated as an aside, do think over it seriously.) But coming to the struggle to root out corruption we must understand that the percentage of the population that is corrupt is miniscule. So we need the strength of atleast thrice that number to impact the corrupt. And the only way we can impact anybody have been outlined long ago by the wise ones- sama, daana, beda, dhandana. It requires different positions of strength to use these differnt means. That is why you find Chidambaram asking the maoists to lay down their arms and come for talks when these worthies managing the state have not found any time to rehabilitate the vicitms of Bhopal or the PAP of Hirakkud, Narmada etc where peaceful struggles have been on for over 25 years!

Coming to your statement about my not answering your pointed questions, I doubt if it is correct. I am not in the habit of leaving anything in the lurch. However I have to admit that because of my frequent movement our of station a good quantum of mail do not get my attention. and have to be deleted when the mailbox space becomes precious. So, if you do not mind, you may forward that questionairre to me once again.

regards n bw

ravi

On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Sudhakaran C K <sudhakaranck1@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear Major Ravi...

On punishing one advocate... I would put up an example.

In 1997 Sree Anna Hazare was successful in ousting two corrupt ministers of Maharastra.

I visited him a couple of months after that event.

After congratulating for his success I asked him: if the two new replacements against the resigned corrupt ministers are virtuous and uncorrupted persons?

Anna: No... They are also of the same corrupt breed.

Me:    What about other ministers in Maharastra, Central Government and other states?

Anna: All of them, the politicians, are corrupt.

Me:     So what benefit your fasting and the struggles brought to the society in relation to controlling corruption?

At the end... he agreed on the irrelevance of fighting corrupt and corruption and promised to take up my 'Great India' ideals... to reform our society. But...... that did not materalize....

And ther are (and had been) many more (innumarable) anti-corruption activists... including TN Seshans Desabakta, your Anti-corruption Chennai etc...

But what is the state of corruption ... is it declining a bit or increasing engulfing all... ???

I repeat similar questions to you. and would quote another activist's words... :
'I hope we, India activists ... by merely highlighting such squalid practices ... do not pacify our patriotism and extinguish our FLAME of ACTION by the water of false satisfaction of having done our bit' ……. Surendra gupta mail on 29-8-2010

My question is why we waste our resources on such squalid issues when the real basic issues are exposed and is in our reach to fight and rectify...???

My fight against 'Negation of Inner-party Democracy' is such a most basic flaw of our political system... and it is in our reach... Apart of our many ills and causes... I have, as you said in an earlier mail, broken down the question in to many small parts and this is just one part of them... but the most importent of the problems and the simplest ot solve...

Please note ... You have avoided answering many of my pointed questions... if you had tried toanswer... the truth would have been dawned to you....

With best regards

Sudhakaran

C.K.Sudhakaran
Web: http://www.greatindiatrust.org , Mail: sudhakaranck@gmail.com
Join our Yahoogroup: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OurGreatIndia
Phone: +91 9745821113, 0480 2804452, Kerala

From: Ravindran Major <majorravi@gmail.com>
To: Janshakti@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Fri, October 8, 2010 6:10:41 AM

Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Professional misconduct by a lawyer in Chandigarh

As far as answering a pointed question i concerned the answer is only one: file a complaint with the bar council of the state. And I have mentioned earlier about my own experience.

Regarding Mr Sudhakar's question : will punishing one advocate matter? My answer is YES. If we do not believe in this simple fact then we should demand the dismantling of all our systems of governance.

regards n bw

ravi

On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 9:06 PM, Sudhakaran C K <sudhakaranck1@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear Member your sermon was not solicited.We asked pointed advise on this issue of profesisonal misconduct and cheating by a lawyer who is supposed to act as officer of the bcourt.There is no difference between him and a street goon.May be more dangerous thah Kasab.Please always remian to the point.We asked action question and not for denate.
Moderator
_________

Dear Moderator...

Let us consider for the sake of argument that we decide to debar him practicing.

What use such a verdict would make/

Do we have the authority to implement it?

If we punish this one advocate would corruption disappear... or diminish a bit?

There are thousands and thousands of such advocates... and bureaucrats... and can not miss Politicians, who practice corruption and protect and promote corrupt.

If our actions would not make any benign effect on the system... is not such discussions a hypocrisy?

Please note that 'Corrupt & Corruption' are just symptoms of degradation of our society... not the cause.

Projecting this symptom as the ultimate villain/cause and trying to fight it to eliminate is akin to treating an ever worsening fever with an anti-pyretic medicine... such as Paracetamol or so ... even with out trying to diagnose the cause of fever...if it is a allergic one, of a common cold, or of a more serious pneumonia, typhoid, Dengue... etc... that need more medicines and expert care!!!

Why can't we use this forum in a more proactive way to expose the breeding-ground/basic-cause/flaw that produce corruption?


Regards

C.K.Sudhakaran
Web: http://www.greatindiatrust.org/ , Mail: sudhakaranck@gmail.com
Join our Yahoogroup: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OurGreatIndia
Phone: +91 9745821113, 0480 2804452, Kerala

From: Sudhakaran C K <sudhakaranck1@yahoo.com>
To: Janshakti@yahoogroups.com; majorravi@gmail.com
Cc: OurGreatIndia@yahoogroups.com; nutanthakurlko@yahoo.in
Sent: Sun, October 3, 2010 1:08:47 PM

Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Professional misconduct by a lawyer in Chandigarh

Dear members please dont divert from main question I asked.This all we keep discussing.My question was pointed.What action to be taken against that corrupt lawyer in instant case
moderator
_____________

Dear Major Ravi…

I appreciate your moral anger towards the unethical practices of Railways and of bar council/judicial system.

But have to point out the fact that you are nearly blinded by the anger... surely your experiences may be one of the causes for such anger. Many of us have met with such experiences while dealing with all types of departments and institutions of our society and felt the anger. But being

'I have learnt from my own experience that our judicial system is a big fraud and is at the root of every tom, dick and harry (call it politician, bureaucrat, underworld if you will) swindling the people with impunity' .......'judge-advocate

nexus'......

I think you erred here. That is not the biggest nexus. I think politician-criminal-corrupt nexus, or criminals donning the politician jacket and they displacing/eliminating any one with a grain of virtuousness and competence form our political horizon, is the biggest curse of our society as a whole and politics in particular.

Because Political power , Raja, is the most dominating power in any society with any type of political system; be it democracy of any nuances, autocracies also of any nuances - monarchies/kingdoms/…etc…

Politicians, directly or not, exert control/influence on each-&-every institutions of a society, even the Judiciary and religious leadership… and even on the ethos of the society and individuals… by being the role-models/icons for them to follow. I had been, from the first mail itself, trying to drive this message.

If the present genre of corrupt and inefficient political leadership is allowed to reign – I do not mean Congress or UPA only, but the leadership across the spectrum of all our political parties – all other institutions would continue to degenerate. So if we really want to see a change to better in any field of our society we should first aim to install a qualitatively better political leadership from the grass root to the top in all political parties…

To do that we should understand and rectify the flaw that attract and promote the most vicious type persons only into politics and its leadership; and restrict entry and promotion of comparatively virtuous and competent persons in politics.

To have a clearer view on this flaw first we should stop our partisan criticisms… Let salvation of our beloved Mother Land be, and nothing else, our prime interest.

'Great India Trust' has identified this vital flaw, and is trying to expose it for others who do not have identified it yet… that is to seek their help in our endeavor to install a more competent and virtuous political leadership to manage our society.

Regards

Sudhakaran

C.K.Sudhakaran
Web: http://www.greatindiatrust.org , Mail: sudhakaranck@gmail.com
Join our Yahoogroup: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OurGreatIndia
Phone: +91 9745821113, 0480 2804452, Kerala

From: Ravindran Major <majorravi@gmail.com>
To: Janshakti@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, October 3, 2010 7:27:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Janshakti] Professional misconduct by a lawyer in Chandigarh

Dear activists

I am NO lawyer but I can perfectly understand your problem because I have learnt from my own experience that our judicial system is a big fraud and is at the root of every tom, dick and harry (call it politician, bureaucrat, underworld if you will) swindling the people with impunity. I dare say that the judge-advocate nexus is worse than any other nexus that are bandied about. Complaints to any of the authorities you have quoted will not matter at all. The official authority to take cognisance of complaints against the lawyers is the bar council but I have a straight forward case pending with them for the last 3 years! The matter is as follows.

I had filed a complaint against the railways under the consumer protection act. The complaint had three issues:

1. the railways cheating consumers by showing inflated distance on the ticket and charging for such inflated distance. for example on the konkan route the railways inflate the distance by 40%. my contention was this was blatant cheating. if the operational cost was higher on this route the railiways were at liberty to introduce a surcharge but the present mode of collecting the excess cost, if there was any, was certainly against the provisions of the CPA.

2. lalu as railway minster had introduced another fraud. that is for tatkal faciilty he wanted the passengers to buy tickets from the starting station of the train to its destination. That is if a passenger wanted to travel from new delhi to agra by Tamilnadu express using tatkal faciltiy he had to buy a ticket from new delhi to chennai! This was apart from the tatkal charges which he had hiked by 300 to 600 percent! this again is violation of consumer rights.

3. lastly, the railways have started another dubious method of fleecing the pasengers . this is by classifying most of the trains as superfast. however according to them the superfast speed is 55 kmph. so I took up th issue stating that if i have paid superfast charges it was my right to tbe transported at superfast speed.

After dragging on the matter for 08 months the forum rejected the complaint saying that it was not under their jursidiction but under the juridiction of the railway rates tribunal under Sec 38 of the railway act! when i took up the matter with rrt chennai, they replied within 10 days that it was not under their jurisdiction under sec 37 of the same act!

I therefore complained to the bar council of kerala. They wanted me to pay Rs 250/- as fees and submit 35 copies of the complaint! Though that was enough to put me off i did comply and it is now more than 03 years and nothing has come out of it. I should soon be submitting a rti application to find out what happened.

But in the meanwhile I looked up the advocates act and was horrified to learn that even in the case of receipts for the fees paid to them the law is preposterous. it say that it would be desirable to give receipts if the client asks for it!

So with that I have come to the conclusion only maoists can save us if they begin to choose their targets right!

regards n bw

ravi

On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 4:02 AM, rajendrakumar_g <cityju@rediffmail.com> wrote:

Our lawyer members may please advise action:

We have received a complaint from Chandigarh of one of our forum members that he transferred his one case from existing lawyer to a new senior lawyer for expeditious disposal as case was not moving for 10 years.
He also gave a money decree execution assignment to this new lawyer .

This was in september 2009.

But till date that new lawyer has not filed the execution decree application giving one after other excuses and in previous pending case also again he keeps telling file is not available in court and so on and in one year nothing has moved

The member asked lawyer to leave the assignments and return his money but lawyer has refused and again he has not taken any action to file execution decree in last whole month.

Now what is course open to him?

Can he file an FIR with Chandigarh police for professional fraud and cheating spcially as agent of the client?

Can he get his Money recovered from lawyer through Chandigarh Bar association or Bar council of India

Can he write complaints to District judge chandigarh and CJ of Punjab & Haryana high court for information and intervention

We as NGO have viwed this conduct very very seriously and it is ungeard of.It is ofcourse a crime.Before we intervene as NGO we would like to know the pros and cons and options available to member as litigant.

Obviously he has no trust in new lawyer and he suspects he is with opposite party.

Please advise if you can

Thanks you

Prof R K Gupta