Monday, April 15, 2013

[rti4empowerment] Re: [odishasoochanaadhikarabhiyan] RIGHT TO INSPECT

 

Dear Mr. Pradhan

No Holder of the information are various other people working in that public Authority. They are not authorised to provide information under RTI Act. Nodal Officer (a non entity under the RTI Act, but is in place to internally coordinate the work relating to RTI in the Public Authority where more than one PIO has been appointed),  on receipt of an application seeking information, marks the application to concerned PIO, who using his powers under section 5(4) or 11 seeks information form the person who holds it. After receipt of the information, PIO supplies the same to the applicant subject to the provisions of Section 8 & 9 of the RTI Act 2005. In most Public Authorities, PIO has been burdened only with dealing the RTI Application and Appeals/Complaints, and no other work of the Public Authority is assigned to him. He has to fetch the information from the custodians (dealing branch/departments) and supply it to the applicants. 


WITH WARM REGARDS
Surendera 
Tel: 919888810811 | Mobile: 919888810811
SNAIL MAIL: Office: 182/53 Industrial Area-I, UNION TERRITORY, Chandigarh - 160002 INDIA 
CEO, AvisSoft || Coordinator, RTIFED, Punjab Chandigarh || President, RTI Help & Assistance Forum Chandigarh || Life Member, Chandigarh Consumers Association || Youth for Human Rights International - YHRI - South Asia || Jt. Secretary, Amateur Judo Association of Chandigarh || Member, SPACE - Society for Promotion and Conservation of Environment, Chandigarh 

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On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Pradip Pradhan <pradippradhan63@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Mr. Bhanot
You are right  that the PIO is the facilitator  of the information. Simultaneously, the PIO is the holder of information.  The officials  who are designated  as PIO  also holds  information ina particular office. For example, In the Block offices under State Govt. of Odisha , Additional Block Development Officer (ABDO) is designated  as PIO who  is responsible  for  holding all information relating to NREGA. If an RTI Applicant seeks information about NREGA,  the ABDO will  supply the information  without seeking anybody's help.  In case the PIO does not hold the information sought for, it is obvious that he or she will seek assistance of any officer or staff .
Regards
Pradip Pradhan


On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 12:39 PM, RTIFED - Surendera M. Bhanot <rtifed@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Mr Pradhan & Mr. Umapati,

PIO is not holder of Information, He is mere a facilitator to provide that information from wherever it lies in a Public Authority. That is why there are Section 5(4) and 5(5) are there in the Act (reproduced below):

Section 5(4) The Central Public Information Officer or State Public Information Officer, as the case may be, may seek the assistance of any other officer as he or she considers it necessary for the proper discharge of his or her duties.

Section 5(5) Any officer, whose assistance has been sought under sub-section (4), shall render all assistance to the Central Public Information Officer or State Public Information Officer, as the case may be, seeking his or her assistance and for the purposes of any contravention of the provisions of this Act, such other officer shall be treated as a Central Public Information Officer or State Public Information Officer, as the case may be.

@Umapati - Right to inspection under Section 2(j)(i) to 2(j)(iv) are distinct from the Right to obtaining information. This is clear from the opening lines of this Section (reproduced below) and see the highlighted portion below: 

Section 2(j) "right to information" means the right to information accessible under this Act which is held by or under the control of any public authority and includes the right to—
(i) inspection of work, documents, records;
(ii) taking notes, extracts or certified copies of documents or records;
(iii) taking certified samples of material;
(iv) obtaining information in the form of diskettes, floppies, tapes, video cassettes or in any other electronic mode or through printouts where such information is stored in a computer or in any other device; 

This is what makes the Seeking information u/s 6(1) and Inspection Under Section 2(j)(i) distinct from each other. 

I hope this clarifies. I will appreciate your further comments and feedback. Thanks. 
WITH WARM REGARDS
Surendera 
Tel: 919888810811 | Mobile: 919888810811
SNAIL MAIL: Office: 182/53 Industrial Area-I, UNION TERRITORY, Chandigarh - 160002 INDIA 
CEO, AvisSoft || Coordinator, RTIFED, Punjab Chandigarh || President, RTI Help & Assistance Forum Chandigarh || Life Member, Chandigarh Consumers Association || Youth for Human Rights International - YHRI - South Asia || Jt. Secretary, Amateur Judo Association of Chandigarh || Member, SPACE - Society for Promotion and Conservation of Environment, Chandigarh 

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On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Pradip Pradhan <pradippradhan63@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Sri Bhanot
I agree with you that the holder of the Section 4(1b) information is  the Public Authority.  But simultaneously,  the PIO is also the holder of this information. Section 4(4) of the Act has clearly mentioned that  " All materials shall be disseminated  x x x x xx x  and the information should be easily  accessable, to the extent possible  in electronic format with the Central Public Information Officer or State Public Information Officer ,  as the case may be  available  free or at  such cost of  the medium  or the print  cost price  as may be prescribed.  While visiting the office of the Public Authority for inspection of proactively disclosed information,   a Citizen  can ask the PIO  for  the inspection of the said material.
Regards
Pradip Pradhan


On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 12:21 AM, RTIFED - Surendera M. Bhanot <rtifed@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Mr. Pradip Pradhan, 

Section 4(4) is relating to free dissemination of information. The Explanation to this Section (after Section 4(4) says the the information under Section 4 can be inspected. This Section is for the Public Authority to act upon and not by PIO, as the opening lines of this section says: "4. (1) Every public authority shall— ..."

The Sub-Section (3) Sub-Section (4) and the Explanation after Sub-Section 4, are reproduced below:

(3) For the purposes of sub-section (1), every information shall be disseminated widely and in such form and manner which is easily accessible to the public.

(4) All materials shall be disseminated taking into consideration the cost effectiveness, local language and the most effective method of communication in that local area and the information should be easily accessible, to the extent possible in electronic format with the Central Public Information Officer or State Public Information Officer, as the case may be, available free or at such cost of the medium or the print cost price as may be prescribed.

Explanation.—For the purposes of sub-sections (3) and (4), "disseminated" means making known or communicated the information to the public through notice boards, newspapers, public announcements, media broadcasts, the internet or any other means, including inspection of offices of any public authority.

Like wise under Section 6(1) 

"A person, who desires to obtain any information under this Act, shall make a request in writing or through electronic means in English or Hindi or in the official language of the area in which the application is being made, accompanying such fee as may be prescribed, to—

(a) the Central Public Information Officer or State Public Information Officer, as the case may be, of the concerned public authority;

(b) the Central Assistant Public Information Officer or State Assistant Public Information Officer, as the case may be,


Here the language used is "who desires to obtain any information under this Act" shall apply to PIO or APIO. Here no mention of any "Inspection". 

Inspection is distinct from "desire to obtain information" 

Moreover No (Application) fee has been provided under the Act for seeking inspection. No procedure has been laid down for seeking inspection, except that the there will be no charge for first hour and there will be Rs. 5.00 for every 15 minutes or part thereof subsequent to first hour. 

As per Section 2(j)(i) Inspection is a Right of a citizen. It is also stated that the Inspection can be made of "works, documents and records". 

Section 2(j) "right to information" means the right to information accessible under this Act which is held by or under the control of any public authority and includes the right to—
(i) inspection of work, documents, records;
(ii) taking notes, extracts or certified copies of documents or records;
(iii) taking certified samples of material;
(iv) obtaining information in the form of diskettes, floppies, tapes, video cassettes or in any other electronic mode or through printouts where such information is stored in a computer or in any other device;

The definition of "records" is:

Section 2(i) "record" includes—
(a) any document, manuscript and file;
(b) any microfilm, microfiche and facsimile copy of a document;
(c) any reproduction of image or images embodied in such microfilm (whether enlarged or not); and
(d) any other material produced by a computer or any other device;

And the definition of the "information" is:

Section 2(f) "information" means any material in any form, including records, documents, memos, e-mails, opinions, advices, press releases, circulars, orders, logbooks, contracts, reports, papers, samples, models, data material held in any electronic form and information relating to any private body which can be accessed by a public authority under any other law for the time being in force;

Reading all these to the intention of the legislation are clear that every thing as mentioned in the Section 2(f) can be inspected. 

During inspection one can, as a matter of Right to Information take notes, extracts or certified copies of documents or records; certified samples of material; obtaining information in the form of diskettes, floppies, tapes, video cassettes or in any other electronic mode or through printouts where such information is stored in a computer or in any other device;

Since the Act is silent regarding the procedure of seeking inspection (Exercising the Right to Inspect), as nothing is prescribed by The appropriate Government may, by notification in the Official Gazette, make rules to carry out the provisions of this Act [as per Section 2(g) read with Section 27 or Section 28 of the Act], it is open to the information seeker to exercise his "Right to Inspection"  as per his convenience. 

PIO is not involved in this exercise his Right to Inspect. It is the Public Authority that has to fulfill this right. Public Information Officer" are designated under sub-section (1) and includes a Assistant Public Information Officer designated as such under sub-section (2) of section 5; and their appointment is made by the Public Authority in all administrative units or offices under it as may be necessary to provide information to persons requesting for the information under this Act,  who shall deal with requests from persons seeking information [under Section 6(1)] and render reasonable assistance to the persons seeking such information.

No where the word Inspection has been used. 

During Inspection, a person may not desire any information. so Inspection is very distinct from Seeking Specific Information. 

While the procedure for Seeking specific Information has been laid down in the Act, there is none in case of Inspection. 

So Inspection is an open ended tool at the hands of Citizens to exercise at his will and convenience and in the manner one desires. 

Mere a right has been mentioned in the Definitions, it does not debar one from exercising it. 

I hope that I am able to made my point clear to you and all. 

Please send your feedback, which I will appreciate. 



WITH WARM REGARDS
Surendera 
Tel: 919888810811 | Mobile: 919888810811
SNAIL MAIL: Office: 182/53 Industrial Area-I, UNION TERRITORY, Chandigarh - 160002 INDIA 
CEO, AvisSoft || Coordinator, RTIFED, Punjab Chandigarh || President, RTI Help & Assistance Forum Chandigarh || Life Member, Chandigarh Consumers Association || Youth for Human Rights International - YHRI - South Asia || Jt. Secretary, Amateur Judo Association of Chandigarh || Member, SPACE - Society for Promotion and Conservation of Environment, Chandigarh 

Please do not mark me as spam.
I do not intend to send unwanted material to any one uninterested. If you do not want to receive these emails any more please send an email to me with "Remove" in subject and I will remove you from our mailing list immediately.


WITH WARM REGARDS
Surendera 
Tel: 919888810811 | Mobile: 919888810811
SNAIL MAIL: Office: 182/53 Industrial Area-I, UNION TERRITORY, Chandigarh - 160002 INDIA 
CEO, AvisSoft || Coordinator, RTIFED, Punjab Chandigarh || President, RTI Help & Assistance Forum Chandigarh || Life Member, Chandigarh Consumers Association || Youth for Human Rights International - YHRI - South Asia || Jt. Secretary, Amateur Judo Association of Chandigarh || Member, SPACE - Society for Promotion and Conservation of Environment, Chandigarh 

Please do not mark me as spam.
I do not intend to send unwanted material to any one uninterested. If you do not want to receive these emails any more please send an email to me with "Remove" in subject and I will remove you from our mailing list immediately.


On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 10:47 AM, Pradip Pradhan <pradippradhan63@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Sri Bhanot

Section 2(j) of the RTI Act has defined  what is " Right to Information". But  the procedure  to  exercise right to access the information under RTI Act  has been  described in section 4(4) and section 6(1) of the RTI Act.
Regards
Pradip Pradhan



On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 1:00 AM, RTIFED - Surendera M. Bhanot <rtifed@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Mr. Umapati S,

Perhaps you are not aware of the provision regarding inspection. 

I am not using Explanation to Section 4 [after Section 4(4)]. Inspection under this section only relates to the Proactive disclosures. 

I also agree with Mr. Pradip Pradhan.

For inspecting the other records, I am exercising my right under Section 2(j)(i). For this no Application under Section 6(1) is required to be made. Not even a written request is required to be made. This is to be made to the Public Authority and not to the PIO. There is no application fee. But there is inspection fee - Free for first Hour, and Rs. 5.00 for each 15 minutes or part thereof. 

No appeal lie against the inspection. But a complaint u/s 18 can be filed. I have already filed a complaint. I have filed the First Appeal, as Commission relegates even the complaints to the FAA. This is just to cover that. 

Moreover, First Appeal make the higher authorities aware about the practice being followed in that Public Authority and may be they rectify it. 


WITH WARM REGARDS
Surendera 
Tel: 919888810811 | Mobile: 919888810811
SNAIL MAIL: Office: 182/53 Industrial Area-I, UNION TERRITORY, Chandigarh - 160002 INDIA 
CEO, AvisSoft || Coordinator, RTIFED, Punjab Chandigarh || President, RTI Help & Assistance Forum Chandigarh || Life Member, Chandigarh Consumers Association || Youth for Human Rights International - YHRI - South Asia || Jt. Secretary, Amateur Judo Association of Chandigarh || Member, SPACE - Society for Promotion and Conservation of Environment, Chandigarh 

Please do not mark me as spam.
I do not intend to send unwanted material to any one uninterested. If you do not want to receive these emails any more please send an email to me with "Remove" in subject and I will remove you from our mailing list immediately.


WITH WARM REGARDS
Surendera 
Tel: 919888810811 | Mobile: 919888810811
SNAIL MAIL: Office: 182/53 Industrial Area-I, UNION TERRITORY, Chandigarh - 160002 INDIA 
CEO, AvisSoft || Coordinator, RTIFED, Punjab Chandigarh || President, RTI Help & Assistance Forum Chandigarh || Life Member, Chandigarh Consumers Association || Youth for Human Rights International - YHRI - South Asia || Jt. Secretary, Amateur Judo Association of Chandigarh || Member, SPACE - Society for Promotion and Conservation of Environment, Chandigarh 

Please do not mark me as spam.
I do not intend to send unwanted material to any one uninterested. If you do not want to receive these emails any more please send an email to me with "Remove" in subject and I will remove you from our mailing list immediately.


On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 11:54 PM, Pradip Pradhan <pradippradhan63@gmail.com> wrote:
 Dear Sri Umapathi

I also  differ with you. As per  section 4(4) of the RTI Act ( explanation), a Citizen  has right to inspect the documents  which are  proactively disclosed under section 4(1b) of the RTI Act. In Odisha, we the RTI Activists are  exercising our right to access these voluntarily disclosed information  by personally visiting the office of the Public Authorities. In case of  finding no  information, we are  filling complaint cases  to the State Information Commission. Under Odisha RTI (amendment) Rules, 2006,  each public authority is required  to maintain a register  for recording  details of the  citizens visiting  their offices   to inspect  the documents proactively  disclosed    under section 4(1b) of the RTI Act. Right to   Inspection  of the records under section 6(1)  is quite  obvious.

But the point  is   whether the  information  which was  inspected  by   Mr. Bahnot    under section 4   does  it come  under section 4(1b)  or not.  It can be examined.  If it does  not  come , then your advice  to inspect  the documents under section 6(1)  is right.
Thanks
Pradip Pradhan


On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 8:21 AM, Umapathi S <umapathi.s.rti@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear sir, 
 according to me, your  instant case  is not as per RTI Act provision. 

The sections you have quoted namely 2(F), (j) and ( i) deal  with definition of the term. it doesn't give any right to inspect the record or obtain information just by visiting office. 
your statutory right to exercise right to  information including right to inspection arises only after proper application is  made under section 6(1) of RTI Act-2005. Further your appeal under section 19(1) ,also suffers from legal infirmity since it is not followed by any proper application under section 6(1). 

further, i wish to state that the prayer you sought before the first appellate Authority can't be granted by him since these are the exclusive jurisdiction of the information Commission. section 19(8) begins with the sentence,   "In its decision, the Central Information Commission or State Information Commission, as the case may be, has the power to— "
Hence, the FAA can't exercise the power of the Commission. consequently the relief you prayed can't be given.

 regards. 



On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 12:32 AM, RTIFED - Surendera M. Bhanot <rtifed@gmail.com> wrote:



Dear RTI Activist,

I have a problem at hand, and a typical one. 

I and P.C, Bali went To the Indian Oil Corporation (IOCL) Office Chandigarh in connection with an unsigned anonymous complaint made in the name of Mr. P.C. Bali, on a letter received from IOCL. This IOCL Letter is attached as enclosure to the attachment. 

The Officer wanted Mr. Bai to either confirm of deny the said unsigned letter, weather it was written by him or not, without showing the so called letter. On Mr. Bali's insistent to see the letter first, the officer declined to show. However on our persistent demand, he just flashed a  3-page letter on his computer screen for 2-3 seconds and closed it. It was not enough. Mr. Bali demanded a copy of the same. Officer refused. 

Seeing this drama, I asked orally the officer that I wanted to inspect the office record (including the computer Hard Disk or the server of the IOCL, where that record is lying), under Section 2(j)(ii) of the Right to Information Act 2005 read with Explanation to Section 4, Section 2(f) & 2(i); and the relevant Right to Information Rules 2012. Officer declined the request. I put the request in writing. Officer again declined. Since the written request was handwritten and made there only, I requested for  a xerox of the same. Officer declined. I asked to give me at least the acknowledgement of the same. Officer declined. 

I have drafted an Appeal u/s 19(1). Please see the same as attachment. 

PIO of that officer, "How and when the right to inspect can be used?" According to him. Only Public Authority, at his sole discretion can allow the inspection, if an application is made to PIO along with an application fee of Rs. 10.00 . 

According to me, law bestows a right to the Citizens and citizen can exercise his right. The Public Authority has just to make it convenient for the Applicant to inspect. According to me, Inspection is not seeking information u/s 6(1) of RTI Act 2005 and one can walk-in in any Public Authority Office and demand his Right to information by inspection under Section 2(j)(i) of RTI Act 2005. Section 2(j) is reproduced below:

Section 2(j) "right to information" means the right to information accessible under this Act which is held by or under the control of any public authority and includes the right to—
(i) inspection of work, documents, records;
(ii) taking notes, extracts or certified copies of documents or records;
(iii) taking certified samples of material;
(iv) obtaining information in the form of diskettes, floppies, tapes, video cassettes or in any other electronic mode or through printouts where such information is stored in a computer or in any other device;

Also during Inspection we can even inspect the Computer system of the Public Authority as per Section as per the definition of "Information as per Section 2(i) includes the "data material held in any electronic form".  

Section 2(f) "information" means any material in any form, including records, documents, memos, e-mails, opinions, advices, press releases, circulars, orders, logbooks, contracts, reports, papers, samples, models, data material held in any electronic form and information relating to any private body which can be accessed by a public authority under any other law for the time being in force;

Section 2(i) also define the "Record" as under and includes "any other material produced by a computer or any other device;"

Section (i) "record" includes—
(a) any document, manuscript and file;
(b) any microfilm, microfiche and facsimile copy of a document;
(c) any reproduction of image or images embodied in such microfilm (whether enlarged or not); and
(d) any other material produced by a computer or any other device;

There is no procedure, so I can exercise my right to Inspect any time. 

Please guide me regarding the procedure for inspection, as it is not laid down. Only it is defined as right to information and the fee for inspection has been prescribed. 

A quick response shall be highly appreciated, please. Please give the citations if available. 

Please read the attachment fully for complete details of the issue at hand. 


WITH WARM REGARDS
Surendera 
Tel: 919888810811 | Mobile: 919888810811
SNAIL MAIL: Office: 182/53 Industrial Area-I, UNION TERRITORY, Chandigarh - 160002 INDIA 
CEO, AvisSoft || Coordinator, RTIFED, Punjab Chandigarh || President, RTI Help & Assistance Forum Chandigarh || Life Member, Chandigarh Consumers Association || Youth for Human Rights International - YHRI - South Asia || Jt. Secretary, Amateur Judo Association of Chandigarh || Member, SPACE - Society for Promotion and Conservation of Environment, Chandigarh 

Please do not mark me as spam.
I do not intend to send unwanted material to any one uninterested. If you do not want to receive these emails any more please send an email to me with "Remove" in subject and I will remove you from our mailing list immediately.


WITH WARM REGARDS
Surendera 
Tel: 919888810811 | Mobile: 919888810811
SNAIL MAIL: Office: 182/53 Industrial Area-I, UNION TERRITORY, Chandigarh - 160002 INDIA 
CEO, AvisSoft || Coordinator, RTIFED, Punjab Chandigarh || President, RTI Help & Assistance Forum Chandigarh || Life Member, Chandigarh Consumers Association || Youth for Human Rights International - YHRI - South Asia || Jt. Secretary, Amateur Judo Association of Chandigarh || Member, SPACE - Society for Promotion and Conservation of Environment, Chandigarh 

Please do not mark me as spam.
I do not intend to send unwanted material to any one uninterested. If you do not want to receive these emails any more please send an email to me with "Remove" in subject and I will remove you from our mailing list immediately.

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